Russian journalist and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Dmitry Muratov says the war in Ukraine can no longer be considered a "victory" for Vladimir Putin, regardless of how the conflict ends.

In an interview with the BBC, the co-founder and former editor-in-chief of Novaya Gazeta spoke about the human cost of the war, the risk of escalation, and the climate of repression against Kremlin critics.

"There will never be a 'victory,'" Muratov said, arguing that the consequences of nearly five years of war make it impossible to portray it as a success. According to him, the loss of human lives on both sides has forever changed the meaning of the conflict.

Muratov also warned of the risk of further escalation. According to him, Russia can inflict great damage on Ukraine, but cannot completely subjugate the country. He described the situation with the words: “You can destroy it, but you cannot conquer it,” warning that such a path could lead to escalation up to the use of nuclear weapons.

However, the journalist avoided any concrete predictions about the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons. He said that no one can know for sure what the Russian president is thinking, while emphasizing that as a journalist he can only observe public statements and developments.

According to Muratov, discussions about the use of nuclear weapons have become increasingly common in the Russian public space. He claims that since the beginning of the year, the need for the use of nuclear weapons has been mentioned more than 500 times, and that such rhetoric has also been heard on Russian state television and at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum.

Despite the economic pressure and the cost of the war, Muratov does not believe that Putin is losing control of power. He dismissed speculation about an imminent disintegration of the Russian elite or conspiracies against the president, saying that the country continues to be led by Putin and that the elites fear him. According to him, this climate of fear is also supported by the Russian security services.

Another important part of the interview was the repression of opponents of the war. Muratov estimates that at least 1,500 people are currently in prison in Russia for opposing state policies. The journalist himself has been classified by Russian authorities as a “foreign agent,” a status that carries numerous legal and administrative restrictions.

Meanwhile, Novaya Gazeta, the independent newspaper that Muratov ran for years, has faced intense pressure from Russian authorities. Its print publication has been suspended and its website has been blocked in Russia, making it difficult for readers inside the country to access.

Muratov also criticized European governments for their relations with Moscow over the years. According to him, European leaders have talked to Putin about human rights and democratic values, while developing economic relations with Russia, especially in the energy and trade sectors. For this reason, he argues, the Russian president does not take seriously some of the criticism coming from Europe.

Yet despite the repression and censorship, Muratov says support for independent journalism has not disappeared. He said people in Moscow still approach him and his colleagues to thank them, but they often do so in silence and whispers.

According to Muratov, this silence does not necessarily mean a lack of dissent. On the contrary, he believes that what people think still matters, even in a society where fear and repression have limited the space to publicly express opinions.